OK here's the run down.. I'm running with a chevy 350 engine and TH350 auto trany matted to a Dana300 t-case with full size chevy blazer axles D44 front and GM 12 bolt rear with stock 3.73 raito, and 35in. tires. I been wanting to swap in some 4.10/4.11 gears This is my DD also and my gas milage isn't the greatest right now anyway like 8-10 MPG. but back to the question should I go with 4.10 or 4.56's?

I would go with the 4.56 I am running the 4.10 now and will probably go to 4.88. The milage will not be that much better with 4.10. Just my thoughts.

With an auto, I would go 4.10. Rpm's will be way too high with 4.56's. I run 4.10's with my 3 speed auto and it turn 3000 at 70.

I would think about leaving the 3.73:1's in the pumpkins, and going with a Teralow-300 4.0:1 gear set in the transfer case. That way it will remain decent as a daily driver, and give you some creepy gearing for wheeling...

I had stock 3:73s and just went to 4:56s it is now perfect for driving around town and I finally got 5th gear back on the highway, along with MUCH better gas mileage.

IMO going from 3:73 to 4:10 is not gonna do it, % wise it is negligable, its a waiste of money to go with any higher gearing than 4:56s. I wish I had gone 4:88s even and I only run 33s. Just my .02

Hey drew are you running a manual or auto? Because with an auto. the torque converter is a multiplier. I had a friend who was running 5.13 with his 5 speed and 35 in. tires he suffered on the hwy but excelled off road.

That's a point, I am driving a stick. However, unless you are driving highway daily I would still go lower gearing. Again percentage wise it just seems like a waist to go from 3:73 to 4:10s.
In 4th gear at 65 I'm at about 2400 RPM, so I still say err toward lower gears IMHO.

Here is my opinion, for what it is worth.

Go to someplace like Dirtroad.com (http://www.dirtroad.com) or Randys Ring & Pinion. Use one of the calculators to find the right gear to match the RPM that you want.

We can sit here and speculate for weeks. If you use the calculator, it will want to know your tranny gear ratio, your t-case gear ratio, the MPH you want to travel at, and the RPM that you want to be at for that speed. Then it will do it's magic and let you know what is the correct gear ratio for your setup. I honestly don't think any of us have the exact combination of driveline components that you do, so we can't honestly answer which is the best for your rig. Although we will give it one heck of a try. :)


erik

Originally posted by Trailbst
Here is my opinion, for what it is worth.

Go to someplace like Dirtroad.com (http://www.dirtroad.com) or Randys Ring & Pinion. Use one of the calculators to find the right gear to match the RPM that you want.

We can sit here and speculate for weeks. If you use the calculator, it will want to know your tranny gear ratio, your t-case gear ratio, the MPH you want to travel at, and the RPM that you want to be at for that speed. Then it will do it's magic and let you know what is the correct gear ratio for your setup. I honestly don't think any of us have the exact combination of driveline components that you do, so we can't honestly answer which is the best for your rig. Although we will give it one heck of a try. :)


erik

Those things don't work for automatics....

Well running a V8 , you have an advantage over the average jeeper . You have the power to leave in the 3:73s and yes a 4:1 gearbox would get you where you want to be in 4wd , 4:10's would be a slight power increase they are not that far away from the 3:73's to make "a world of difference " . 4:56's would be the difference you would really feel . keep in mind that a 3:73 is ALOT stronger than a 4:56 gear and with the v8 you will have the power to break gears . MY personal opinon would be to go with a 4:10 gear set . you will gain a LITTLE mileage increase and a Little power increase without compromising strength . :confused:

Thanks for all the imput. Right now with the 3.73 I'm turning like 2800 to 3000 RPM at 65 MPH. It moves along just fine except for the long hills I lose all of my speed and power unless I drop it down into 2nd. I could be going 85 at 3700 RPM and slow all the way down to 55 at 2500 RPM hills like Cajon Pass on the I-15 I know that a Big hill but really should drop that much???

Originally posted by igofshn
Those things don't work for automatics....


Ok, so we've had this conversation before. I am converted about Autos offroad, and the ability to use the torque converter for limited amounts of time to provide infinite:1 Final gearing.

For the road, you still have a overdrive, and you should really be beyond that slippage point for the torque converter, Why won't it work????

Erik

Originally posted by tonkadave
Thanks for all the imput. Right now with the 3.73 I'm turning like 2800 to 3000 RPM at 65 MPH. It moves along just fine except for the long hills I lose all of my speed and power unless I drop it down into 2nd. I could be going 85 at 3700 RPM and slow all the way down to 55 at 2500 RPM hills like Cajon Pass on the I-15 I know that a Big hill but really should drop that much???

If you are losing that much speed on little hills like Cajone Pass, you really should be looking at that engine. You should have no problem holding what ever speed you want with a small block, 3.73's and 35's on a light jeep. When is the last time you checked the compression? Timing chain? Tune up?

I would check that out before I spent a LOT of money on gears. Are you sure about those 3.73's? :confused: Your engine is spinning pretty fast (3K @ 65mph). My truck spins less than that with 4.10's and 33's (keep in mind that both your jeep and my truck have 1:1 hi gear in the tranny and t-case, so with deeper gears and shorter tires, my engine should be spinning faster than yours at any speed, assuming we were both in high gear).

I rebuilt the engine in early 2000 had the heads done too. I have gears for timing and all that was done at the same time. I have LOTS of power and low end grunt it's the top end that suffering??? I'm gonna be putting in fuel injection soon getting a TPI off a carmero complete with wireing harness computer ect. The only other thing I can think of is why the RPM are high is my t-case it came out of my 81 CJ-7 which came with 151 iron duke 4 banger. I taked with a tech person at fourwheeler mag. way back in 1995 and he said something about differnt gears in that t-case because of the 4 banger???? dont know how true it is but even when I was running the SR4 4speed trany that came stock with the CJ I was always turning high RPMs like 3200 at 65 mph?????? Oh right now I have A Holly truck avenger carb with a Weiand action plus duel plane intake, edelbrok performer-plus cam (for the gear heads) lift at cam intake .280, exhaust .295 block hugger headers 2 1/4 exhaust with flomasters. the trany has a TCI high torque towing converter. ( I grenaded 2 stock one before) and the trany was just rebuilt a like 18 months ago. I did one of those formuals for the right gear combo with tire size ect and it came out to 4.27 gears.

4:56s 4:56s 4:56s 4:56s :rolleyes: :P4:56s ;)

I love my 4.88's offroad with my Auto, but on the freeway SUCKS!!! 4.56's would probably do better. You have to take into account what size tire you will stop at. 35's? 37's? There are calculators online that will tell you what your final speed/RPM will be. Find something that works good for you.

Edit: Found one http://www.quiknet.com/~ke6vut/rpmcalc.html

Those calculators don't work for autos.

Originally posted by igofshn
Those calculators don't work for autos.

Prove it

IGOFSHN, I already asked you once why not. I have friends with autos that will tell you otherwise for the Freeway.

PROVE IT

When the torque converter isn't slipping on the highway and your tranny is 1:1 or .75:1, and the transfer case is 1:1, different gearing in the axles will make a difference and the calculators can show you different RPMs.

PROVE IT

Erik

Put your 5 speed in 4th and do 70. Tell me what the rpm's are. My 3 speed at 70 with 35's and 4.10's turns 3000. The calculator says I turn 2700. My speedo is dead on. That's your proof.....

Originally posted by igofshn
Put your 5 speed in 4th and do 70. Tell me what the rpm's are. My 3 speed at 70 with 35's and 4.10's turns 3000. The calculator says I turn 2700. My speedo is dead on. That's your proof.....

My Torque converter locks up creating a 1:1 ratio, my trannys 3rd gear is a 1:1 ratio. 1:1 = 1:1. So basically you are saying that your torque converter is effed up, and not locking up? Thus slipping and giving you higher RPMs. At 65 w/ 33's and 4.88's I spin a little over 3k. The calculator says 3232 rpm.

So, you're also saying that you're gonna quibble about 300 RPM, and that makes the calculators inaccurate for alll Automatics. That is lame. 300 RPM is nothing, that's a 10% tolerance. Heck, at 55 MPH posted speed limit, you get a guarnateed 10% fudge for speeding.

WHATEVER!!

This is straight off www.4lo.com , so they are full of it also. They aslo say your rpm's for a 3 speed auto will be higher.

The below table can be used to get a rough idea on gear ratios. The colors represent ideal RPM's at highway speeds (65). For highway cruising and best fuel economy stay towards the yellow (2600 rpm), around town daily driving is color coded green (2800 rpm), and for better towing power or just more 4-low power use the ratios near the red (3100 rpm). These calculations are assuming a manual transmission with a 1:1 ratio. If you drive an automatic your RPMs will be higher, and the opposite is true if you have overdrive (your RPMs will be lower).

Better Gas Mileage Close to Factory Ratio More Power


Gear Ratio
T
i
r
e


D
i
a
m
e
t
e
r
3.31 3.42 3.55 3.73 3.91 4.11 4.27 4.56 4.88 5.13 5.29 5.38 5.71 6.17 7.17

27" 2677 2766 2872 3017 3163 3325 3454 3689 3947 4150 4279 4352 4619 4991 5800
28" 2582 2668 2769 2909 3050 3206 3331 3557 3806 4001 4126 4196 4454 4813 5593
29" 2493 2576 2674 2809 2945 3095 3216 3434 3675 3863 3984 4052 4300 4647 5400
30" 2410 2490 2584 2715 2846 2992 3109 3320 3553 3735 3851 3917 4157 4492 5220
31" 2332 2409 2501 2628 2755 2896 3008 3213 3838 3614 3727 3790 4023 4347 5051
32" 2259 2334 2423 2546 2696 2805 2914 3112 3331 3501 3610 3672 3897 4211 4894
33" 2191 2263 2349 2469 2588 2720 2826 3018 3230 3395 3501 3561 3779 4093 4745
34" 2126 2197 2280 2396 2512 2640 2743 2929 3135 3295 3398 3456 3668 3963 4606
35" 2065 2134 2215 2328 2440 2565 2664 2845 3045 3201 3301 3357 3563 3850 4474
36" 2008 2075 2154 2263 2372 2493 2590 2766 2961 3112 3209 3264 3464 3743 4350
37" 1954 2019 2095 2203 2308 2426 2520 2692 2881 3028 3123 3176 3370 3642 4243
38" 1902 1966 2040 2144 2247 2362 2454 2621 2805 2948 3040 3092 3282 3546 4121
39" 1854 1915 1988 2089 2190 2302 2391 2554 2733 2873 2962 3013 3198 3455 4015
40" 1807 1867 1938 2037 2135 2244 2331 2490 2664 2801 2888 2937 3118 3369 3915
41" 1763 1822 1891 1987 2083 2189 2275 2429 2599 2733 2818 2866 3042 3287 3819
42" 1721 1778 1846 1940 2033 2137 2220 2371 2538 2668 2751 2798 2969 3208 3728
43" 1681 1737 1803 1894 1986 2087 2169 2316 2479 2606 2687 2733 2900 3134 3642
44" 1643 1698 1762 1851 1941 2040 2119 2263 2422 2546 2626 2670 2834 3063 3559

Originally posted by Trailbst
So, you're also saying that you're gonna quibble about 300 RPM, and that makes the calculators inaccurate for alll Automatics. That is lame. 300 RPM is nothing, that's a 10% tolerance. Heck, at 55 MPH posted speed limit, you get a guarnateed 10% fudge for speeding.

WHATEVER!!

I'm saying they aren't accurate. 300 rpm's is more than one tire size.... The difference between 33's and 35's. You also have said that the auto doesn't give you almost twice the crawl ratio. The torque converter does a lot that the manual isn't capable of. That is one reason a lot of auto drivers don't use the 4-1 tcase. The 2 in combo can sometimes make gears too low.

You're ability to read fails you! This is what I posted earlier in this thread, aimed directly at you:

Ok, so we've had this conversation before. I am converted about Autos offroad, and the ability to use the torque converter for limited amounts of time to provide infinite:1 Final gearing.

Ok, there, have a piece of that cake and shut up for a while. It is infinite:1, when you bleed the brakes and buildup RPM in the torque converter, it's not 2:1, and it is for as long as your brakes can take it. I was recently taught by a friend who wheels a BIG cherokee with the AW4. THANKS!

As for the page, I guess you need to quote it some where. I didn't see anywhere that it says it didn't work for the Autos, as a matter of fact, check out this part of the website you linked to:
Transmission ratios (http://www.4lo.com/calc/transm_table.htm)

Holy Sh1t!!!! Check that out, he lists the AUTOMATIC transmission in there to use in his calculator.

Next point. Why can't Cops give you a ticket for going 5 MPH over the speed limit?? Do you know?? It's that tolerance factor. They have to give 5 MPH because the factories don't always put out 100% accurate speedometers.

Next, how do you know yours is dead on. Did you put it on a Dyno?? How did you prove that??

Finally, all we did was suggest that a online calculator be used to give a ballpark of what gear he should go to. We never said it was the HOLY BIBLE for figuring it out. Truthfully, unless he goes to a Tranny shop, he won't know. I had a converter built for my speedo on my XJ, he had a cable with a counter that screwed into the speedo gear spot on the transfer case, I drove a mile, and based on the number on the counter, he built a adapter for the gears that I had with the tires that I had. I think it was close but won't say dead on. SH!T, I didn't think of this till just now, WHY do they change the tires on NASCAR so often, YEP they wear, they also get smaller and affect the overall diameter, and thus the speed of the car. MAYBE, your speedo isn't dead on anymore, like you think it is. HMMMM, are your tires brand new, or in the same condition as when you changed the speedo gear, HMMMM.

Lots of variable HUH???

So like we said, if he wants an estimate of what gear to use, try one of the online calculators.


Erik

We know the ratio is 1-1. Never argued that point. I also said my speedo was dead on, unless my gps is off. I said that it didn't work for autos because it wasn't accurate. Like I said before the difference can be more than one tire size. That's a lot. That's not ballpark. And yes, cops can give you a ticket for going 5 over, but that is part of our discussion.

Check this out.

My 3 speed at 70 with 35's and 4.10's turns 3000. The calculator says I turn 2700. My speedo is dead on. That's your proof.....

Ok, check this out from Drivetrain Direct:

With an automatic transmission your rpms will be higher due to slippage in the transmission and the torque converter. Drivetrain Direct.com (http://www.drivetraindirect.com/html2/calculator2.html)
It is in the paragraph under the scale. Last sentence.

There is proof that it will work for Autos.

No, cops can't, that is one that you can fight and win every time, because of the reason I posted!! It is part of the discussion. It shows a tolerance.

They do work as an estimate!

Originally posted by Trailbst
Check this out.



Ok, check this out from Drivetrain Direct:

Drivetrain Direct.com (http://www.drivetraindirect.com/html2/calculator2.html)
It is in the paragraph under the scale. Last sentence.

There is proof that it will work for Autos.

No, cops can't, that is one that you can fight and win every time, because of the reason I posted!! It is part of the discussion. It shows a tolerance.

Note that the scale above is based on 65 MPH and a 1 to 1 gear ratio with a manual transmission in 4th gear. With an automatic transmission your rpms will be higher due to slippage in the transmission and the torque converter.

Where does it say it works for autos??????

It says exactly what I have been arguing.

With an automatic transmission your rpms will be higher due to slippage in the transmission and the torque converter.


Don't come to Ca. They do give tickets for 5 over.

HMMM, it still doesn't say that it DOES NOT work for Autos, as you originally stated. It says with an auto they will be higher, so it does work. SH!T, what happens, you go over 40, and you can't read?? Last I looked you still had a 1:1 in your auto tranny. It still works for an estimate, which is what Chris and I have been screaming all along. It will just be higher, doesn't say how much higher, but higher. So if YOUR torque converter is slipping more than Chris', then it will be higher than the chart.

I could still fight the ticket in CA and win. Most people are uninformed and therefore just pay the ticket.

Estimate!!!!! That's all! Crimeny, all this casue you think you have to be right, and be 100% correct. Estimate!!!! That's all he needs to get him near where he should be. Estimate!!!!!!

I'm done. Post what you want in response, but I'M DONE. TonkaDave, use a calculator to get an estimate. Then decide where you want to be.

Erik

Originally posted by Trailbst
Check this out , x-----x It shows a tolerance.

OK now I feel better . Never knew my blood pressure could go up just reading something .

JIM :{>

You guys are a trip! But thanks for all the info and stuff. I'm gonna stick with the 3.73 for now untill after I get the fuel injection swap done and the tera 4-1 in the t-case.

Originally posted by jim79cj7
Speaking of tolerance , Im losing mine for this post !!! Shut the "F" up !!!!! All of you !

OK now I feel better . Never knew my blood pressure could go up just reading something .

JIM :{>

Then don't read it, or don't post about it. Take that for your "Shut the "F" up.

I don't appreciate that, and i wouldn't EVER say anything of the sort to you, Jim, or anyone else on the Bulletin Board.

If you don't like the topic or the course of the discussion, don't read it. It didn't directly involve you. You chose to be a part of it, and you chose to be disrespectful.

I am disappointed in you, who usually seems to have the calmest of personalities.

Take this for what it is worth. I have in the past referred people to your business. I no longer will, based on your attitude towards those of us who were having a civil discussion, albeit contrary, it was civil until your statement.

Good Day.

Erik

Originally posted by Trailbst
Then don't read it, or don't post about it. Take that for your "Shut the "F" up.

I don't appreciate that, and i wouldn't EVER say anything of the sort to you, Jim, or anyone else on the Bulletin Board.

If you don't like the topic or the course of the discussion, don't read it. It didn't directly involve you. You chose to be a part of it, and you chose to be disrespectful.

I am disappointed in you, who usually seems to have the calmest of personalities.

Take this for what it is worth. I have in the past referred people to your business. I no longer will, based on your attitude towards those of us who were having a civil discussion, albeit contrary, it was civil until your statement.

Good Day.

Erik

It was a joke ! Jeez take pill , As for me being a part of this conversation , I am because i made a relative point according to his application . Maybe , everytime this Auto vs stick conversation arrive ,we could all start under the Heading of " OK , just for the sake of argument " . Bickering is for Kids So relax and have some fun !

Wow boys...settle down now, no need to quibble over a few hundred rpms:P

Lets all kiss and make up.

Unfortunately the internet doesnt allow us to hear tone and context, so I can understand how someone could easily misconstrue this entire conversation. Lets remember that for the future guys.

As for Jims products, AND his customer service, and his overall attitude, THEY ALL ROCK :) Ive known Jim for a while, and all I can say is that though you may have taken him seriously, I know for a fact hed NEVER say those words in complete sincerity. Jim NEVER has a bad word to say about anyone, and I have never HEARD an explitive out of his mouth....FYI, Jim, Chris and Al are all friends, and knew how to take that from him.

I know return you to your regularly scheduled program.

Tam :)

ok ok, I'll let it go













































But I still think I'm right!:D

btt! :wave: :D :D

Originally posted by NAILER341
btt! :wave: :D :D

Great , just when i thought this would dissapear ! Thanks Nailer for bringing this back to the top to haunt me ;) My apologies to all Offended by my Rude comments towards the bickering few . it was not meant to offend , was just trying to stop the arguments a little .

Erik (Tralbst) this is my Final apology to you . SORRY .

OK I am Done !
Your Filthy mouthed Fabricator ,
JIM :{> :)

Originally posted by jim79cj7
Your Filthy mouthed Fabricator ,
JIM :{> :)

HA!

Thats some funny stuff!!!

Funny, when I think of a filthy mouthed fabricator, its certainly not YOU!:P

Tam :)

Originally posted by JeepGal
HA!

Thats some funny stuff!!!

Funny, when I think of a filthy mouthed fabricator, its certainly not YOU!:P

Tam :)
HA! i could certainly think of a fabricator with a fuilthier mouth :D
i missed out on all the drama while i was in mexico. wow! you guys really went at it. its ok for family to have a spat once in a while.... everyone can get back to their friendly selves. and in dukes case, "fuilthy mouthed" self :wave: :D :duke: