Ok, here is the decision at hand. What do I want to use for the ends of new control arms? bushings or Heim joints? The lowers will be fixed, uppers will be adjustable. If I go with bushings throughout, how is everyones feelings about phenolic vs poly? The arms themselves will be 1.5" x .250 DOM for the uppers, and either 1.5 or 2.0" x .250 DOM for the lowers . I might press a length of the 1.5" into the 2.00" for the lowers....but I think that will be overkill considering they are going to be "short" arms (OE length).

The jeep is a '03 TJ/rubicon, sees the trails 2 or 3 times per month, but realistically "rock time" vs "pavement time" is pretty low, probably around 5 - 6% is on the rocks, the rest is hardpan.

Any thoughts?

Originally posted by goodtimes
Ok, here is the decision at hand. What do I want to use for the ends of new control arms? bushings or Heim joints? The lowers will be fixed, uppers will be adjustable. If I go with bushings throughout, how is everyones feelings about phenolic vs poly? The arms themselves will be 1.5" x .250 DOM for the uppers, and either 1.5 or 2.0" x .250 DOM for the lowers . I might press a length of the 1.5" into the 2.00" for the lowers....but I think that will be overkill considering they are going to be "short" arms (OE length).

The jeep is a '03 TJ/rubicon, sees the trails 2 or 3 times per month, but realistically "rock time" vs "pavement time" is pretty low, probably around 5 - 6% is on the rocks, the rest is hardpan.

Any thoughts?

Here are my thoughts:

If I were building the arms, I would put Johnny Joints or RE Cartridge joints in them. Might as will, if your building new ones. If your set on bushings I wouldnt go with Poly. They are stronger and wont wear out as fast, but they wont flex as good as stock bushings. Maybe a JJ in one end and a bushing in the other.

Johnny Joints all around gets my vote. That's what I did on my rear 4-link setup. Fixed JJ's at the axle, and adjustables at the frame.

http://www.tommyjeep.com/projects/033103_prorock60/images/50.jpg

How much grease do you go through? And who's joints are you running? How much noise and vibration are you getting transferred to the frame? I hear people complaining about them alot, but I have to wonder if those people wouldn't be better off with a mini-van.

Originally posted by goodtimes
How much grease do you go through? And who's joints are you running? How much noise and vibration are you getting transferred to the frame? I hear people complaining about them alot, but I have to wonder if those people wouldn't be better off with a mini-van.

That is why I suggested one JJ and one bushing. The JJ would do the flexing and the bushing for the nosie and vibration.

Originally posted by Dukes69
That is why I suggested one JJ and one bushing. The JJ would do the flexing and the bushing for the nosie and vibration.

That is the way I am leaning. A RE sf joint on the axle end, and a rubber bushing on the frame end (for the lowers--opposite for the uppers). I have heard of some people having problems with the JJ's coming apart under side loads, the RE joints have a threaded side plate that is retained by a snap ring, so they don't suffer from the same problem. Unfortunately, the cost is running up pretty damn quick! By the time I am done, it might cost me less to just go buy the 4.5" RE kit, especially when you consider that I am not going to be running any extream trails with the heep (meaning the RE 4.5" SF kit would work just fine for my intended use).

I greased them up once and they're holding just fine. I don't hear any noise, or feel any vibration from the links. Just an FYI, a JJ can flex a total of 15* Running a JJ at one end and a bushing at the other just isn't an option for me. My rear axle flexes a total of 27*. With JJ's at each end, I get a total of 30*

When the JJ runs ouf of flex then the bushing starts to flex. Well either the bushing or your weld will flex :eek: . . . lets hope the bushing will. Thats assuming you get all 15* out of the JJ.

BTW, 15* is worst case. If you add a washer on each side of the JJ, you'd get more out of it. I just figured I was getting 30*, so I didn't need to mess with any of that.