THE FOLLOWING MOAB COMPANIES SIGNED THE FOLLOWING LETTER TO GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN. PLEASE READ ON THRU THIS THREAD FOR NEW DEVELOPMENTS.

http://www.suwa.org/library/Final_Huntsman_ad.pdf

Dear Governor Huntsman:

We wish to congratulate you as you begin your tenure as Utah’s new governor, and to thank you for your expressions of commitment to Utah’s wild places at the recent Outdoor Retailers Convention.

We represent a broad spectrum of well over 100 business owners, conservation organizations and individuals who understand that preserving Utah’s spectacular landscapes is key to our quality of life. Our natural setting is central to our identity and economy. It is the reason we live here, play here, raise our families here and keep our businesses here.

Which is why we are deeply concerned about recent actions by the State of Utah that threaten this setting and so much of what we value about where we live.

-- Recently, the State of Utah joined a legal challenge to the creation of the Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument.

-- The State of Utah is spending millions of dollars on lawsuits to turn phantom “roads” and jeep tracks into highway rights-of-way. This action could create a destructive and unnecessary spider web of roads through some of our wildest and most sensitive landscapes. This includes Canyonlands National Park, where lawyers for the state have filed a lawsuit claiming that a lush, remote streambed – essential to native plants and wildlife – is actually a state “highway”.

-- State lawyers have pressured federal land managers working on long-term planning for public lands to minimize protection of Utah’s most magnificent, undeveloped wild places.

Some of the special places at risk are Utah icons: National parks, like Zion and Canyonlands; Factory Butte; Cedar Mesa and its archaeological wonders; the Canyons of the Escalante; the Kaiparowits Plateau and the San Rafael Swell. We hope you recognize that these actions threaten some of the most magnificent landscapes on earth – landscapes which also contribute significantly to a vibrant economy in Utah. Taxpayer money should not be spent in efforts that undercut both the beauty and the long-term economic prosperity of our unique state. We urge you to use the authority of your office to protect these special places. Generations to follow will be grateful for the legacy of vast, unspoiled spaces and their enduring peace, solitude and grandeur.
Back Of Beyond Book Store
83 N Main
Moab, UT 84532 – 2302

Canyon Voyages Adventure Company
211 North Main
Moab, UT 84532 – 2342

Canyonlands Field Institute
1320 S Highway 191
Moab, UT 84532 – 3102

Center Café
60 N 100 West
Moab, UT 84532 – 2323

Colorado Plateau River Guides
120 Arbor Dr
Moab, UT 84532 – 3227

Earthstudio
31 N Main
Moab, UT 84532 – 2302

Eddie McStiff's
59 S Main
Moab, UT 84532 – 2522

Far Out Expeditions
208 E. 200 South #1 PO Box 1342,
Moab, UT 84532

Footprints Inc
121 E 100 South
Moab, UT 84532 – 2661

GearHeads
471 S Main
Moab, UT 84532 – 2980

GearHeads North
59 S Main
Moab, UT 84532 – 2522

Hound Dog Sound
76 S Main
Moab, UT 84532 – 2567

Knave of Hearts Bakery
84 W 200 North
Moab, UT 84532 – 2329

Living Rivers
21 N Main
Moab, UT 84532 – 2302

Lost River Trading Company
39 N Main
Moab, UT 84532 – 2302

Main Street Music & Video
59 S Main #8
Moab, UT 84532 – 2548

Miguels Baja Grill
51 N Main
Moab, UT 84532 – 2302

Moab Chevron
817 S Main
Moab, UT 84532 – 2962

Moab Lodging
50 E Center
Moab, UT 84532 – 2473

Moab Self Storage
1819 Pebble Lane
Moab, UT 84532

Moab-Canyonlands Central Reservations
50 E Center
Moab, UT 84532 – 2473

Moabilia
77 N Main
Moab, UT 84532 – 2302

Mondo Café
59 S Main
Moab, UT 84532 – 2522

Peace Tree Juice Café
20 South Main
Moab, UT 84532

Poison Spider Bicycles
497 N Main
Moab, UT 84532 – 2126

Red Rock Bakery
74 S Main
Moab, UT 84532 – 2503

Rim Mountain Bike Tours
1233 S Highway 191
Moab, UT 84532 – 3062

Slickrock Adventures
59 E Center St
Moab, UT 84532 – 2461

Slickrock Café
5 N Main
Moab, UT 84532 – 2364

Sunshine Deli
817 S. Main
Moab, UT 84532

Utah Guides and Outfitters
1233 South Hwy. 191
Moab, UT 84532
_______________________

Anyone going to Moab this year should stop by these places and politely inform them that you will not be doing business with them because of thier actions.

You should print and carry this list with you. I am asking anyone here to carry extra copies to pass out when they are there.

I will be donating $20.00 toward having flyers printed by MJR to pass out at this years event and hope others will also send money so the attendance can be canvased

Do not argue with these guys, be very polite, do not let them draw you into a arguement, do not have any ALCOHOL in your system or on your breath if you talk to one. We want a positive outlook on us, and want to hurt them where they will feel it most.

Their pocket books.

If the Gas stations and Cafes on the list notice a strong drop in business, then they will welcome us next year

WE ARE IN A BATTLE FOR OUR LANDS, this is a positive way to fight it.

Good call. We can take care of the flyer design and production. I'd like to hear everyone's input on what they think it should say. I'm thinking maybe a flyer and petition combined. Anyone's thoughts?

Moab Chevron too? Really?

Moab Chevron too? Really?
Yeah, pretty funny, huh.

I have seen this list on 3 other websites and copied and pasted it here
if you know of any 4x4 sites we should paste it on their sites also

I have seen this list on 3 other websites and copied and pasted it here
if you know of any 4x4 sites we should paste it on their sites also
Do you happen to know where this came from, so we can find out more?

Am I right in assuming that some of these companies need access to maintain their business, they just don't want anyone else (you and me)spoiling their view?

can anyone confirm or disconfirm this? I think it should be verified before we boycott. Sound fair? I mean, thats alot of companies and some of them seem like they wouldnt exist if it wasnt for offroading.

Interesting.... I know a couple of folks at the 2 bike company's on the list (I work for a bike manufacturer) and I say intersting as on of them is an avid 4 wheeler with a sick Bronco (good sick) and the touring company rely on four wheel drives to ferry there clients about offroad, and I'm sure they aren't alone!

I have a friend who lives near there researching this for us.

I've seen this list too on a few sites, I agree it should be researched. I might have bought gas at the Chevron last year.

I have to say I that this is a list going around 4x4 web sites, I pulled it a posted it here.
I reveiwed the list and the fact that it contains a long list that includes addresses and 9 digit zip codes, I felt this was a lot of research that someone had gone through and that most people would not have gone this far if it were not a true post. That said, I cannot think of a reason someone would have issue with 30 companies, I will research this further and post results of my findings.

I cannot think of a reason someone would have issue with 30 companies

Dis-information. By people boycotting companies that count on 4x4 patronage, those companies might second think their support of access for offroad vehicles. This would be an effective way for the "greenies" to errode support in areas that normal support the off-road community.

Just playing devil-advocate :D

so far I have gone to the moab chamber of commerce, they have a recording on their phone and no answer, I have called businesses on the list, One busid=ness so far has denied it, That was Jeff at slickrock cafe, however the contact I was given was a Hans Fuegi in another town as being the owner
I have been hung up on once, told no comment, and once told," How did this get out?"
However, I have only one confirmed no, I continue to call
untill I get a definte yes or no I will not post a business name.

I have gone to the Moab chamber of commerce and only contacted an answering machine.
I started calling businesses on the list and only have one confirmed reply
Slickrock Cafe, the GM a Jeff, states no, hopwever the owner is not there to comment. Jeff mentions they are all into 4xers.
besides that I have had 3 other replies, one hangup, one no comment, and one "how did that get out?" but no confirmed yes or nos, I will not state a business untill I get a yes or no

interesting finds. i have tried searching the web for any new stories or active sites that post this sort of information. nothing.

Sarah I just got off the phone with arealtor in the moab area, She will be emailing me a copy of the letter in question
Yes there is a letter, yes people signed it
the letter appears to be a regulatory letter asking for control, How much I can not answer till I see the letter,
She states that the wording on the letter never states anti access, but states controlled access.
She also states that the business's that are involved are
1 realing from the reaction
2 state that the did not know what thay were signing and it looked like a letter to get the mondo 4xers gone, not the nice ones
and some agreed over the phone to say they agreed.

a contact from a 4x club in the area, states he feels this is the "sandal crowd" behind it all.

As of right now, from What i get, people in Moab have seen the letter, some have agreed and now state they didn't know what they were signing, and that they wish the issue would go away.

I can see how a org such as the " Southern Utah Wilderness Alliance" whom several feel is behind this could twist something into looking good to get signatures, I can also ask, Why would you sign a regulatory letter if you did not believe in it.

So as it looks now, I have one No, One yes we have the letter, I will get you a copy, we feel like we are being targeted and do not want it to hurt us, One, let me give you another name to call, who isn't in. and a bunch of scared business owners who are afraid to talk about something they signed or agreed to weather they were tricked or not.

If I get the fax with the letter I will scan and post it.
I am tryig to get to the bottom of this.

I have found a letter, and here is the link

I cannot as of yet tell you if this is the letter signed in Moab as the letter has not been sent to me

http://www.suwa.org/library/Final_Huntsman_ad.pdf

Wicked find. For those that don't want to launch the PDF here is the letter:
Dear Governor Huntsman:

We wish to congratulate you as you begin your tenure as Utah’s new governor, and to thank you for your expressions of commitment to Utah’s wild places at the recent Outdoor Retailers Convention.

We represent a broad spectrum of well over 100 business owners, conservation organizations and individuals who understand that preserving Utah’s spectacular landscapes is key to our quality of life. Our natural setting is central to our identity and economy. It is the reason we live here, play here, raise our families here and keep our businesses here.

Which is why we are deeply concerned about recent actions by the State of Utah that threaten this setting and so much of what we value about where we live.

-- Recently, the State of Utah joined a legal challenge to the creation of the Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument.

-- The State of Utah is spending millions of dollars on lawsuits to turn phantom “roads” and jeep tracks into highway rights-of-way. This action could create a destructive and unnecessary spider web of roads through some of our wildest and most sensitive landscapes. This includes Canyonlands National Park, where lawyers for the state have filed a lawsuit claiming that a lush, remote streambed – essential to native plants and wildlife – is actually a state “highway”.

-- State lawyers have pressured federal land managers working on long-term planning for public lands to minimize protection of Utah’s most magnificent, undeveloped wild places.

Some of the special places at risk are Utah icons: National parks, like Zion and Canyonlands; Factory Butte; Cedar Mesa and its archaeological wonders; the Canyons of the Escalante; the Kaiparowits Plateau and the San Rafael Swell. We hope you recognize that these actions threaten some of the most magnificent landscapes on earth – landscapes which also contribute significantly to a vibrant economy in Utah. Taxpayer money should not be spent in efforts that undercut both the beauty and the long-term economic prosperity of our unique state. We urge you to use the authority of your office to protect these special places. Generations to follow will be grateful for the legacy of vast, unspoiled spaces and their enduring peace, solitude and grandeur.

I called my new realtor friend back,
she says that that is basicly the letter
I have still asked for her copy to be faxed

it was put to the people of Moab that they were going to get rid of the "wild 4x4 crowd with regulating the access to the area, and that they were to sign so that the numbers would show support for this. They state that the good 4x4ers they want around.
Most feel that it was not what people are taking it as

they feel that it was meant to get rid of a destructive part of our sport, not the law abiding 4xers that frequate thier businesses, and that they are to suffer because of it. plus she states some were told it was a welcoming letter to the Govenor that delt with a few issues, but didn't investagate the issues.

My opinion from several hours of phone calss is:

Bad Judgement by Moab.

I feel that they should have investagated who was behind the letter, what it's fianl draft would say, and that these people already are fealling it's result.
If any signed to block access, they regret it now,
if they were tricked into signing, they really regret it.
THat we should express our concerns, but this proves how Enviromental groups will use anything to get their agenda accross.

I made the origonal post

I also have spent several hours on the phone long distance to investagate.

I feel these people should not be punished for being fooled.
and that they already are seeing what the power of one misjudgement can do.
I would suggest talking politely to these people in Moab and doing business with them. I feel, from talking to several, they feel that they have been abused by tree huggers, or as they say in Utah, THe Sandal Crowd.

SIGNED:
Action Consulting, Inc., Moab
Al McLeod, Grand County Council (former member), Moab
Alder Photo & Writing, Springdale
Alta Lodge, Alta
Angel Rock Real Estate, Moab
Arrow Construction Company, Inc., Kamas
Avalanche Properties, Park City
Back of Beyond Books, Moab
Black Diamond Equipment, Salt Lake City
Bob Walker Art and Design, Moab
Boulder Mountain Lodge, Boulder
Braun Books, Cedar City
Bruce Hucko Photography, Moab
Buffalo Bistro, Glendale
Business Management Services, Moab
Caineville Mesa Market, Caineville
Canyon Springs Consulting, Moab
Canyon Voyages Adventure Company, Moab
Canyonlands Field Institute, Moab
Canyonlands Film Society, Moab
Center Café, Moab
Chris Noble Photography, Salt Lake City
Chums, Inc., Hurricane
Colorado Plateau River Guides, Moab
Colorado River and Trail, Salt Lake City
Cottonwood Condos, Moab
Critter Corner, Kanab
Data Wranglers, Inc., Moab
Desert Digital Imaging, Moab
Earthstudio, Moab
Eddie McStiff’s, Moab
Exquisite Container Gardens, Moab
Fando Guest House, Moab
Far Out Expeditions, Moab
Far Out Expeditions, Bluff
Flanigan’s Inn, Zion National Park, Springdale
Footprints Inc., Moab
Four Corners School of Outdoor Education, Monticello
Four-Corners Archaeological Services, Moab
Framed Image, Moab
Fullam Fireworks, Moab
Gaia Design, Moab
Gearheads, Moab
Gilberg Design, Kanab
Glyphics Designer Gourds, Moab
Grand Canyon Trust, Moab
Grand County Law and Justice Center, Moab
Great Basin Chiropractic, Salt Lake City
Green River Boaters, Vernal
Groovacious, Cedar City
Healing Arts on Center, Moab
Heartstone Massage, Moab
High Desert Gardens, Moab
Hike Moab, Moab
Horse Mountain Woodwork and Plaster, Moab
Hound Dog Sound, Moab
Human Resource Development, Moab
Independent Publishing Company, St. George
Infinite Health – The Bridge, Moab
Inskip Ink, Moab
James Kay Photography, Salt Lake City
Joe Sorensen Construction, Inc., Moab
Joel Nystrom Construction, Moab
Knave of Hearts Bakery, Moab
Lisa Albert, LMT, Moab
Living Rivers, Moab
Lost River Company, Moab
Lucky Dog Communications, Salt Lake City
Main Street Music and Video, Moab
Manzana Springs Farm, Moab
Mean Bean Coffee House, Springdale
Miguel’s Baja Grill, Moab
Moab Chevron, Moab
Moab Folk Festival, Moab
Moab Lodging, Moab
Moab Property Management, Inc., Moab
Moab Storage, Moab
Moab/Canyonlands Central Reservations, Moab
Moabilia, Moab
Mondo Café, Moab
OkOkOk Productions, Moab
Outdoor Utah Vacation Guide, Salt Lake City
Paragon Painting, Moab
Passage to Utah, Salt Lake City
Patagonia, Salt Lake City
Peace Tree Juice Café, Inc., Moab
Petzl America, Clearfield Phil Triolo & Associates, Salt Lake City
Plateau Restoration, Inc., Moab
Poison Spider Bicycles, Moab
Powder Corporation, Park City
Raven Canyon Ranch, Kanab
Red Dirt Ranch Enterprises, Kanab
Red Rock Bakery, Moab
Red Rock Forests, Moab
Rim Tours, Moab
Rocking V Café, Kanab
Rustic Furniture of Moab,
Moab Sacred Earth Foundation, Ivins
SereneScapes Illustration, Moab
Sierra Club (Utah Chapter), Salt Lake City
Slickrock Adventures, Moab
Slickrock Caféé, Moab
Southern Utah Wilderness Alliance, Salt Lake City
Sunshine Deli, Moab
Tesch Law Offices PC, Park City
Thunderpaws, Kanab
Travis Kelly Graphics, Moab
Treasure Mountain Inn, Park City
Tree of Life, Moab
Under-the-Eaves Bed and Breakfast, Springdale
Utah Guides and Outfitters, Moab
Vortex Outdoors, Salt Lake City
Wasatch Frame Shop, Salt Lake City
Wasatch Touring, Salt Lake City
Whipple Plumbing & Heating, Inc., Moab
Will Cooper Acupuncture, Moab
Willow Canyon Outdoors, Kanab
Words and Photographs by Stephen Trimble, Salt Lake City
Xetava Gardens, Ivins

THat we should express our concerns, but this proves how Enviromental groups will use anything to get their agenda accross.
This is for sure. I would like to even urge them to contact the organization that created this letter, and let them know they no longer want part of it. An anti-petition perhaps!? :D

Thanks for the time spent shedding some light on this. :8

Thankyou Jim for looking into this.

Im glad we didnt go on a full blown witch hunt before researching further.

As I told Sarah, I think these merchants would make great allies to the fourwheeling world, as at this point, they feel totally taken advantage of. We need to find a way to help them undo their mistake. Sarah, Jim and I are discussing what we can do.

Tam :)

Jim and I discussed creating a flyer on behalf of MJR, taking a neutral stance on the issue. Basically, presenting the facts and providing a way for the signers to contact the organization responsible for the letter/petition. Per Tammy's idea we are also going to write to possibly the Moab newspaper, Chamber of Commerce, etc.

If anyone has any suggestions for our letter/flyer/etc ... Please post and let us know how you feel, so we can be representative of the MJR Board.

I am going to make contact tommorrow, asking for my contact, who knows many of the owners, to have them post a recant and say they fell tricked and want nothing to do with the Southern Utah Wilderness Alliance, or the land clousure issue. and have it publiclly posted in a local newspaper, to send us a copy of the posting, we will them print in the flyer that these businesses want nothing to do with the letter and we can send a copy of each recant to the Governor of Utah.
this gives each member of their community a chance to show how they feel and a chance to show Utah that the SUWA uses cheap hand tricks to get thier support.
and if printed in he flyer will give them a chance to pass out the flyer and then 4xers can feel good about using the business services.

The southern Utah wilderness all. is a org that states in its mission statement

Off Road Vehicle: to protect America's Redrock Wilderness from irresponsible ORV use and gain management plans, restrictions, and enforcement for these machines on all public lands.

this is a anti access statement
however they have acheived the support of the businesses is the issue we are addressinf here
I have been told that not all the businesses will want to recant from the access issue. Or pull support from SUWA

I see it as you are for access or not for access, However I cannot speak for the board here.
I would be interested in where we draw the line.
is it as simple as for or against, or is it a maybe a little would be alright.
I do warn that giving in a little means that soon a little more is taken,then more again and again.

lets hear it.

Ah, the first lesson of politico-environmental activism...

LIARS.

This is very typical of many groups supporting a liberal anti-access, pro-regulation viewpoint. The underlying deception in the mission statement is this: "protect...from irresponsible ORV use..." What they say is that they would like to protect from irresponsible ORV use, which to most ORV users means the drunken fools throwing bottles overboard while tooling down the trail. To them, the word irresponsible covers ALL ORV use. This is the group responsible for closing the only access to some of the most incredeble petroglyphs in Canyonlands. For a better discussion of the topic, 4x4dvd.com has a great section on Utah land use issues in their Enthusiast - 4x4 101 DVD. How ironic that we just watched the DVD last night and this very issue was the crux of the discussion on Canyonlands land use. The "lush, remote streambed" referred to in the letter is actually a trail that has been in use for decades and they only called it a streambed (perhaps the word wash fits here?) to evoke the emotional response of the public that there certainly must be countless wildlife at risk from driving through a "streambed".

Personally, I find it amazing that any business that makes it's livelihood on the 4x4 community would not give this group due diligence prior to signing anything. Of course, who knows what was verbally said at the time the group went out for signatures. Promises, promises...

I will support any business that withdraws it's signature, but none that do not. I think it might be worth writing letters to the businesses to alert them to what they actually signed. I wonder how many of them actually saw the letter?

I have talked to a few business owners who deny signing, or deny even knowing of the letter but thier names are on the list

http://www.suwa.org/library/Final_Huntsman_ad.pdf

The additude of it will just go away if we wait long enough is kinda in Moab

it is time to start writing letters emails and hitting web pages

we must show how searious this issue is and how many people are behind it

please copy and paste this to all 4x web sites

it is full support or no support, no other will do

Land closure is a very serious Issue.
On this website we have a feature about Pontiac sluice, that area is now going wilderness. that is how serious the issue is, Closed trails. a few areas at a time. first big horn, then cucamonga wilderness, next..... and it goes on and on.

Let everyone who has a computer spend 30 minutes posting this message, and writing to a few of the businesses, you can get thier websites and emails off the Moab Chamber of commerce website.

here is the link http://www.moabchamber.com/

This is what I think......

1. Did you find this on the web? If so, then I would automatically dismiss it. I get so much garbage in my inbox forwarded by close friends who recieved it from close friends that it must be true. It hardly ever is. However, my debunking sources (www.snopes.com and www.urbanlegends.com) do not have any listings for this particular letter. I have seen other letters similar to this that have turned out to be false.

I *feel* it is false in that it wants to close off all jeep/atv trails.

2. I reread the letter and I interpert it as saying that they are against the relabeling of "trails" to "highway". This is where lawyers make their $$$$. I think what they are afraid of is if the trails are renamed then they will get paved over as befitting a state "highway". The extra traffic (and construction) will surely destroy the landscape! And the easier access will chase away those of us who like roughing it.

So, I too, am against the re-designation of "trails". I am opposed to closed access. If they want to close jeep trails then to be fair they *must* also close hiking trails, horse trails, atv trails, bike trails, etc. I personally have packed out tons of someone else's trash while backpacking. In my experience, Jeepers are the cleanest!

Ok, I'm stepping down off my soap box....
CAT

Cat

Suwa has an agenda, and that agenda is to have as much of Utahs publics land turned in to wilderness.
Might I point you to what is happening to our own National forest here is southern California.
In the San Bernardino forest we have 3 large wilderness areas already carved out and now this year they will be carving another.
They use the smallest of reasons to have the areas closed.
Land clousures mean no wheeling
Might I point out that wheeling introduces many to the outdoors and our need to preserve them.
Any support of a Orginazation who wants regulation of motorized access (such as stated in SUWAs mission statement) is only supporting the forces that close land to us. It cannot be tolerated.

After reading the Suwa web site over, and reading it's links. I can only come to the conclusion that they are anti access, I say this because they state that they want to protect Utahs BLM land from ORV use. and that they are against off road intrest from using a 19th century law from protecting trails as highways. this is a call to remove access if I have ever seen one. call the letter what you will, it is smoke to cover SUWA's true intention of anti access

Jumping in a little late here...

For starters, I read the letter that was posted here a couple times. I actually didn't see much in the way of negativity towards 4x4s? Perhaps I missed something- and please alert me if I did- but is just seems that they are talking about stopping the creation of public roads in certain areas. Again, I might have missed something.

On the issue at large, I read an article written by Bill Burke on some of the activities he saw while in Moab this year, I honestly have to say that there is some credence to the argument presented. I also have to say that I am not a fan of buggies for any use other than competition- on man made courses. I thought going off road was about seeing the scenery and driving there and being proud that your machine got you there and got you home. Burke talks about guys in buggies on Pritchett inventing a bypass to the rockpile just b/c they didn't want to use the strap or winch. THAT kind of behavior is what needs to stop.

While I was in CO for the last year and a half, a very popular trail outside of Boulder called Carnage is constantly at risk of being closed. There is an open shooting range- that you actually have to drive through the line of fire to get to the trail- which looks like a garbage dump. Shells, obliterated debris, etc. Even in some of my video, you can hear gunshots in the background and it is embarassing to explain it to viewers.

My point is, what is to be done? I have gone through trails in CO where I saw people who had picked up close to a case of beer cans and I often pick up garbage I see. I have read about camping being halted at Spider Lake on the Rubicon due to folks not being willing to carry out their own crap. I am very glad to see that this site WHOLEHEARTEDLY and intelligently advocates responsible activity. However, looking from the outside in, this most certainly is the exception, not the norm. So then, it seems that large scale sweeping tactics that are ridiculous are the only things that bring it to the attention of the public at large. Hopefully- as is usually the case- there will be a moderate outcome.

I have to say that I am an advocate not of closing trails, but of MUCH more stringent regulation of their use. I drive a completely street legal vehicle to the trail and behave in a responsible way. So I don't have ANY problems with them wanting to regulate access. Just don't close it altogether. I draw a correlation to what CA has done for people who ride dirt. I don't think any 2 stroke dirt bike can get a green sticker any longer and even some 4 strokes can't. This is just another example of CA getting it right. Intelligent regulation, not stifling closure.

Any clousure is a start toward full closure.
You do not move a mountain all at once, you haul it away trucklaod by truckload. If you doubt that, look up at the mountains on the 10 freeway in colton fontana area that have been mined away for concrete.
The truckload by truckload is the method used to regulate things out. One step at a time till you forget it was there.
If you can get one person to agree, and both get another, etc, You get the point.
We need to First ,be vocal in our non support of closure
Second, Show how decent of citizens we are as individuals
Third, Help to clean up the act of 4x4s who are not part of the good guys by education and showing those individuals our Displeasure to their acts.

I can remember traveling across counrtry in the 60s as a child, Litter was everywhere on the sides of the roads
now after years of antilitter campaigns, you do not see much at all.
that is how they cleaned it up, education and fines
that is how we can clean up the Trail areas
Education, tread lightly, and turnng in those who do not obey the laws, or go off trail etc.
You may not like it, but the future of our sport depends on it.

You brought up a very good point- albeit a bit of a grassy knoll correlation that I generally don't subscribe to.

However, we definitely agree that regulation is the key, not closure. It stinks to be regulated to heck, but when faced with that or closure, it is rather obvious the choice. Plus, it is those that accept the regulation who are responsible and behave accordingly and the lazy so and so's who don't are who get locked out.

Don't get me wrong on regulation, though, I generally HATE it. But again, this is an instance where it would do some good until the social engineering over time cures the issues much like in the litter example (I really liked that one).

we have to accept a few points
1 the guys wanting us off the trails point out all the bad about us, they never point out we buy passes, we have clean up campaigns, or that we are HUGE advocates for the outdoors staying nice.
2. That it takes only one drunk, or one law breaking off trailer. or one illeagle campfire for all our good to be destroyed
3 They can pull the heart strings of the bleeding hearts with pictures of Bambi and pristeen wilderness.
4 They do not go after the forestry management that we work with to help the areas, they would get nowhere with them.
5 senetors and congressmen look at the numbers of voters, not the issue.

That is why we need to stand up and start getting organized to clean up the act of all the offroaders.
A lobby is a group that goes to the elected officials and shows them what they have to offer. Numbers of votes are what is at stake. If our Vocal numbers got as big as the Tree Huggers, the fight would be who does the most volunteer work. If a forest is closed, there is no volunteering.
So you see, it is a numbers game, and a clean image we have to maintain.
Regulation within our numbers before we are regulated out.

[QUOTE=blackZZR]I have found a letter, and here is the link

QUOTE]

Look around the site some more and you will see just how extreme this orginization is....:gun:

Check this page out and look at the ATV slide show!!!:thumbs_do

http://www.suwa.org/page.php?page_name=Camp_Orv_Home

~RAL