well.. i went and did it. i bought the conversion kit for my jeep. now i have to scrounge up the money for the inner axle shafts. when i get the parts you can follow this thread for the write up on the installation. i got the warn that will take the 760 u joint. this is going to be a strong ass axle.
getting closer to hammer ready :)

AWESOME!!! I plan on running the same kit......eventually, but no funds. So is this the 5x5.5 kit? And will you still be running the CAD?

i'm sure i'll hear some crap about it, but i did get the 5 on 4.5 one. that way i dont have to change my wheels.
what is "CAD"?

CAD= Central Axle Disconnect. The 2 piece passenger side axleshafts is the CAD. Like all YJ's have, if you havent already done something, like an axle swap or TJ shafts. I like the hub conversion, but cant see paying for it. If i look hard enough im sure i could find a 44 to swap in, but for now the 30 is fine for me. Im not gonna give you any hell for it, Its your jeep, and I'll prolly end up running something similair in the long run.

i've heard of it as a vacuum disconect..
this set up works out to be pretty darn strong. stronger than a stock dana 44. they are running this set up through the "hammers" all day long. it will now have the 760 u joints, and the hub is the "fuse"
i think i'll like it.. i'll let you know if i find something i dont like :)

CTM'S!!!!:D :D

go big or go home:P

Originally posted by Dukes69
CTM'S!!!!:D :D

go big or go home:P
you buy, and i'lll fly :)
those are some bad ass joints, but... it makes your R&P the week link.... personally, i think i'd rather fix a u joint on the trail... well, unless someone wants me to do some free testing of their ctm u joints.
:wave:

well, i am on my way to gathering the parts for this conversion. i have the major parts ordered for this. i got the warn 5 on 4.5 conversion for tha larger u joints. it willl be using the 760 ujoint. for this conversion you have to get the inside of your rotor machined to a larger opening to accept the conversion.
in order to machine the rotors, you must have the right type. you have to have "cast" rotors. composition style rotors wont work. they are too weak in the area that the machining needs to take place.

this is a picture of a "cast" rotor.
http://www.justaddrocks.com/images/images_stuff/DSCN6281.jpg
notice the squared edhe at the top of the hat area.....

below is a picture of the composite rotor, which wont work for the machinist, and is usually what is already on your jeep.

http://www.justaddrocks.com/images/images_stuff/DSCN6283.jpg

below is a note from warn's web site with part numbers for cast rotors, which can be machined to the size needed.

Note: Increases track width by 3/4" per side. Full cast rotors must be purchased and the rotor pilot hole must be machined to 3.575 = or -.015 before installation (Full cast rotor ITT PN 65225, Wagner PN BD125039, Raybestos PN 7142). Warning: loss of ABS braking.

I want to do this same setup.5x4.5 small hubs for the previously stated reasons.Can I use my Super30 inner shafts with the Warn outers? Will it hold up to 35,s and ARB?

I want to do this same setup.5x4.5 small hubs for the previously stated reasons.Can I use my Super30 inner shafts with the Warn outers? Will it hold up to 35,s and ARB?

I don't see why not, you could actually use stock inners if you wanted to.:)

the nice thing about warn inners are they are set up to accept full circle ujoint retaining clips. most others arn't.

they should hold up just fine.

I think the super 30 kit already has full circle clips in addition to 30 spline shafts. Sounds like it will be ok.Thanks blkTJ.

Erik, I've got some rotors for you. I'm stepping up to the WJ stuff and won't need my machined rotors that are on with my little hub conversion now. For that matter you can have the calipers and pads too since I just put them on 2-3 months ago.

for me?!
i know there are a few eriks on this board... i'd love a spare set if you are offering to me ;) :wave:

It's you Erik, John's getting sentimental in his old age....

It's a YJ thing.. got to stick together or something

I have a friend that added that conversion and he is running 37s on his rubicon... I think he had 4.56 gears (not 100%)... He said the biggest thing he noticed was the GAS MILEAGE INCREASE... He said he noticed a serveral miles per gallon jump. I'm curious to see what you get.

woo hoo! its like christmas or something. :wave:
thank you, sir! they will be cherished.

It's a Leaf Sprang Thang Erik!

I have a friend that added that conversion and he is running 37s on his rubicon... I think he had 4.56 gears (not 100%)... He said the biggest thing he noticed was the GAS MILEAGE INCREASE... He said he noticed a serveral miles per gallon jump. I'm curious to see what you get.

Not true and not possible.

Think about it. If DC could improve the mileage just by disconnecting the front hubs, they would do it to improve their CAFE average and sell more Vipers or V-10 trucks.

Yeah, this is a popular urban legend that stems from some SUVs on the road today sporting "full time" 4wd. Think about what is actually turning when you have the hubs locked in versus unlocked... a driveshaft, differential, and axle shafts. Not much energy required to rotate that stuff going down the road. In fact, I have seen no difference whatsoever on my CJ with the hubs locked versus unlocked. I tested this theory a few years ago when I ran a couple tanks through it with the hubs locked. Not enough difference to even notice.

Not true and not possible.

Think about it. If DC could improve the mileage just by disconnecting the front hubs, they would do it to improve their CAFE average and sell more Vipers or V-10 trucks.


Well back in the day when we (self & friends) all had lifted 3/4 ton pick-ups and V8's the one with the manual hubs did get better mileage. Mostly noticed on long highway runs though but for me I rather not have that stuff moving if it's not in use.

B&T TJ

When I disconnected my driveshaft for the trek to Moab, I gained about 1-2 mpg. We disconnected Tammy (Jeepgal's) driveshaft for the moab drive and she got something like 22-24 MPG on the trip. I guess becuase its not true for 2 people, it must not be true for me.


10 foot tall and bulletproof,
Chris Field

When I disconnected my driveshaft for the trek to Moab, I gained about 1-2 mpg. We disconnected Tammy (Jeepgal's) driveshaft for the moab drive and she got something like 22-24 MPG on the trip. I guess becuase its not true for 2 people, it must not be true for me.


10 foot tall and bulletproof,
Chris Field

My experience is not limited to 2. It's more likely in the neighborhood of 10 and nothing we've been able to do with the hub conversion has shown an increase in efficiency. Of course, no one puts the hub conversion on with little tires and stock rigs. That may have something to do with it.

You say you gained about 1-2, was it one or was it two? The reason I ask is the following. I loaned my diesel to my nephew for a trip to colorado. I asked that they keep track of the mileage for me.

At the first fill-up they reported a phenomenal 21 mpg on a truck that my previous best was 18.

The next tank full was down to 16, the next was 14, the next was back up to 17.

Slightly confused over the varied results, I questioned them as to how and whom filled the rig. Turns out, I was the only one who had the patience to trickle in the last 6 gallons of fuel from the first click off. They had taken turns amongst the 3 of them and varied when they quit filling the truck. Some dribbled longer than others, but none of them filled it until they could see fuel in the filler neck like I did. That meant there was at least a 6 gallon difference in what they considered full. Has a tendency to skew mileage results.

In the 03, I consistently put 31 gallons into the 28 gallon tank when the low fuel light first illuminates. I have put as much as 33 in when I drove it for awhile after the light came on.

So, how are you checking the level of the tank? If you can't see fuel in the neck, you have no idea how full it is, do you?

I was the one that was keeping track of the mileage, and doing the fill-up. I cant remember exactly what my average was, but it was pretty amazing...somewhere between 22-24. I only filled up to the point of auto shutoff. Chris ALWAYS tops it off...:P

When I disconnected my driveshaft for the trek to Moab, I gained about 1-2 mpg. We disconnected Tammy (Jeepgal's) driveshaft for the moab drive and she got something like 22-24 MPG on the trip. I guess becuase its not true for 2 people, it must not be true for me.


10 foot tall and bulletproof,
Chris Field
How fast did you guys drive? :P

Rick says on the other hand his Jeep gets pretty much the same mileage whether he's pulling a trailer or goin' solo.

When I disconnected my driveshaft for the trek to Moab, I gained about 1-2 mpg. We disconnected Tammy (Jeepgal's) driveshaft for the moab drive and she got something like 22-24 MPG on the trip. I guess becuase its not true for 2 people, it must not be true for me.


10 foot tall and bulletproof,
Chris Field

I've thought about this some more. You know what it's worth to me for Kat's TJ to get 22 mpg? 500 dollars. I'll spend half a grand for her rig to get that mileage. Or, show me how to do it and the half is yours. Motor has to stay, tranny has to stay, already has a hub conversion, basically it has to stay a modified TJ without cutting it up.

I've got my money up, where's yours?

E-Z now...let's all play nice in Sarah and Rick's sandbox...

now, having said that, I'd pay twice that to double my gas mileage (the regear to 4.88's hurt...a lot, can't wait for these 33's to wear out so I can get 35's). I can't say exactly what I get now as the speedo is still substantially off (was right on at 4.10 and 33's).

Chris, are you sure the odometer was square on Tammy's Jeep when you got those measurements?

E-Z now...let's all play nice in Sarah and Rick's sandbox...


my thoughts exactly... now don't make me have Erik ban all you guys.:D

Ohh man what did I start? :rolleyes: but seriously. I will ask him what exactly he is getting. He is a local mechanic at a dealership in So Cal and is not prone to tell tales. I too was surprised as was he even. With gas prices at over 2 bucks a gallon for the cheap stuff here, I would be happy with 2-3 MPG improvement.

If you drive 12,000 a year in your Jeep and get 12 MPG. At 2.25 per gallon your spending 2,250 a year on gas. Now you get 14 MPG, you spend 1,928 and at 15 MPG, 1,800. Hmmm not that bad... You pay for the conversion in 2-3 years depending on what you save.

If it is true I just talked myself into some more stuff for the Jeep. I wonder if I can get away with "Winning" something that expensive on eBay and the wife realizing what that really means?

Snip . . . blah blah blah . . . snip
So, how are you checking the level of the tank? If you can't see fuel in the neck, you have no idea how full it is, do you?
When gas/fuel comes out of the filler and onto the ground . . . Its full! :wave:

I've thought about this some more. You know what it's worth to me for Kat's TJ to get 22 mpg? 500 dollars. I'll spend half a grand for her rig to get that mileage. Or, show me how to do it and the half is yours. Motor has to stay, tranny has to stay, already has a hub conversion, basically it has to stay a modified TJ without cutting it up.

I've got my money up, where's yours?

What's the point? I have nothing to prove. Maybe I should put a disclaimer before every post . . .
"Your results may vary."

:cake:

Tam's Jeep has 33's w/ 3.73's . . . that might have something to do with it! :)

Chris, are you sure the odometer was square on Tammy's Jeep when you got those measurements?

yup. I've checked it with a couple radar deals in town.

goood mooornin eeemmmmmjjjaaaayyyaaaarrrre :wave:

well, my jeep prefers the 75-80 mph range for long travel. no vibes, and she will get 15-18 mpg doing it :)

now you boys settle down, and behave :wave:

What's the point? I have nothing to prove. Maybe I should put a disclaimer before every post . . .
"Your results may vary."

:cake:

Tam's Jeep has 33's w/ 3.73's . . . that might have something to do with it! :)


Possibly, but you did post this- I guess becuase its not true for 2 people, it must not be true for me.


10 foot tall and bulletproof,
Chris Field
Which is anything but a disclaimer.

There's a huge difference between stating your results and then doing it the way you did.

33's and 373's are slightly off as far as the stock ratio equivalent. Closer would be 33's and 410's.

While I don't doubt that you got the mileage you say you did, you have to admit that in my experience with 10 jeeps in various combinations of manual and auto trannies , stock to 35 inch tires, 307 to 488 gearing, hub conversions and not, loaded and not, long trips and not and only having ever seen mileage as high as 16, that I may be a tad skeptical of any claim in the 20's just by removing a driveshaft. Can you see where that would make no sense whatsoever?

To compound it, I ran 33's and 4.10's, then went to 35's. Mileage still the same 12-13 that it got stock. Sergey did a test for us and put 4.56's in with 35's and gets 12-13. Since it made little to no difference in the fuel economy, when we built Kat's, I put 35's with 4.56 for a little more power on the hills and her mileage as well as her odometer readings went unchanged and still, with a hub conversion.

We even have a few with 37's daily driven that are around the 12-13 mark.

So, if someone comes along and tells me disconnecting the front driveshaft will get 20 + miles to the gallon, why wouldn't I spend 500 to get the same mileage? At the current price of fuel, I'd spend it in a heartbeat. Wouldn't you?

We caravanned to the 'Con, about 55-60 because of the tow rigs and across the board, all the jeeps needed fuel at nearly the same places. One rig getting +20 would have been the envy of all.

So, if someone comes along and tells me disconnecting the front driveshaft will get 20 + miles to the gallon, why wouldn't I spend 500 to get the same mileage? At the current price of fuel, I'd spend it in a heartbeat. Wouldn't you?

Maybe Il can convince my wife that we need to purchase the conversion to find out what the real MPG improvement is. I mean, its for the good of all humanity! Right?

:)

OK...here ya go.

My Jeep is a 2002 TJ with 3:73's and 33's. I followed Chris up there, and his Jeep is lucky to go 65mph, so more then likely we did an average of 58 or so. I rarely exceeded 2000 rpms. The only other thing I think may have contributed to it, was that I was right behind him the entire way...his Jeep is about 3" taller then mine, so I drafted a bit. I know that COULD be significant, but I dont know by how much. I dont know how close Id have to be to make that be worthwhile.

My speedo is right on.

REALLY. I did get that mileage...but unforntunately, those days are going to be over when I get my 4:56's installed.

Ill tell you what, Ill test it again when we do the next long distance run. Maybe Ill take the Jeep up to Rick and Sarahs in the near future Ill let you know how it goes. The only problem I think we may run into, is that we had NO ZERO NADA traffic. Thats going to cause problems if I cant recreate those conditions.

Tam

OK...here ya go.

My Jeep is a 2002 TJ with 3:73's and 33's. I followed Chris up there, and his Jeep is lucky to go 65mph, so more then likely we did an average of 58 or so. I rarely exceeded 2000 rpms. The only other thing I think may have contributed to it, was that I was right behind him the entire way...his Jeep is about 3" taller then mine, so I drafted a bit. I know that COULD be significant, but I dont know by how much. I dont know how close Id have to be to make that be worthwhile.

My speedo is right on.

REALLY. I did get that mileage...but unforntunately, those days are going to be over when I get my 4:56's installed.

Ill tell you what, Ill test it again when we do the next long distance run. Maybe Ill take the Jeep up to Rick and Sarahs in the near future Ill let you know how it goes. The only problem I think we may run into, is that we had NO ZERO NADA traffic. Thats going to cause problems if I cant recreate those conditions.

Tam

I, like most others that use our rigs in daily circumstances, would like to know what your unspecial circumstance, non highway, non long distance, non draft, average daily combined mileage is.

I suspect that it's non magical just like the rest of us and averages about 14-16 miles per gallon on the high side. OR, in the neighborhood of 240-260 miles per tankful.

Mileage? What's mileage?

I get about 12-14 (or did the last time I checked), but then I have about as much steel added as a M1 Abrams :)

If my TJ saw 14 mpg, I'd be happy as a clam. Maybe it could if I kept it at 55 mph on a long trip but that ain't gonna happen.

" Mileage" doesn't really matter to me Jerry. I can leave my house (Corona), run trails all day in the San Bernardinos, and come home on the same tank of gas. I generally carry a 6 gallon can on the rear rack "just in case", but except for a few times I've run the on board welder - rarely need it. Usually leave 1 gas can and 2 water cans on the rack. That's enough range for me - us old farts need to pee every 200 miles or so anyway :)

Chris, I don't think you were lying. I just think you adopted a position to prove everyone or me especially, wrong and left out a few pertinent facts.

You are bound to know that bad gas mileage is one of the things that we will tolerate in order to drive a vehicle we enjoy on many different levels.

Jumping into the middle of a discussion about hub conversions and how to justify them with an outrageous to us claim about phenomenal fuel mileage as if anyone could duplicate your results is a bit myopic.

Now, if you owned a jeep, drove to Moab with no traffic continually, had someone to draft, and were tired of removing your front driveshaft, then your claim would make sense.

But, as you know, and anyone else with a jeep knows, in everyday use, mileage sucks, the hub conversion will not improve it to a point to justify the expense or time to install it.

Everyday use is really what's important as I doubt there are many that would chose a jeep to commute to Moab with.

That's really the context of the discussion, isn't it?

Blaine,

We never said it was a daily thing, and we outlined the circumstances that made it happen.

I think the point is, there are things that you can do to a Jeep to contribute to better mileage...we all pretty much know what they are. Chris didnt know I was drafting, and Im not entirely sure I was...but thought it might contribute, so included it.

Our example merely pointed out the best case scenario results.

Tam :)

Tam, If you were drafting behind Chris, then you were doing what, maybe 55. That would really help your mileage.

Blaine,

We never said it was a daily thing, and we outlined the circumstances that made it happen.

I think the point is, there are things that you can do to a Jeep to contribute to better mileage...we all pretty much know what they are. Chris didnt know I was drafting, and Im not entirely sure I was...but thought it might contribute, so included it.

Our example merely pointed out the best case scenario results.

Tam :)

Go back and re-read the posts in order. The second disagreement was from Chris stating the following.

-When I disconnected my driveshaft for the trek to Moab, I gained about 1-2 mpg. We disconnected Tammy (Jeepgal's) driveshaft for the moab drive and she got something like 22-24 MPG on the trip. I guess becuase its not true for 2 people, it must not be true for me.


10 foot tall and bulletproof,
Chris Field

I don't see any best case scenario anything in that statement. Do you? If you do, please underline it for me.

Essentially what this boils down to is context and accuracy in context. Perhaps if the statements in question had been made in a thread titled- What are some ways to improve my mileage?, the context would be more appropriate. Even then, I doubt that anyone with a hub kit would tell anyone else to buy the kit to improve their mileage, no in good conscience anyway. But, to jump in 10 foot tall and bulletproof and make a blanket statement that just disconnecting a front driveshaft will net you 22-24 mpg is complete and utter crap. Later, even you admit that the statement is less than forthcoming. Sorry, without the extenuating circumstances explained, that's what it is.

The factor that anyone considering a hub kit needs to be aware of is that in and of itself, (remember, this is a hub kit thread) the hub kit will net you at best 1 mpg and typically for the average driver in everyday driving in this part of the world, that increase is usually not noticed due to the poor aerodynamics at freeway speed.

In reality, I am fairly certain that you could draft, stay below 60, travel long distances without stopping, leave the driveshaft connected and net within 1 percent of your stated mileage. Quite the inverse of the statements intent.

Isn't that what this is really about? Context and accuracy?

Isn't that what this is really about? Context and accuracy?

THIS, being MJR, is really about wheeling and having fun, not about arguing who is right and who is wrong. Or who said this and that. If you feel the need to argue on the internet further, I know a good place.

Blaine,
If you have a problem with me or Tammy, you need to PM me and maybe we can work it out. You can even call me if you'd like, my number is in my Signature.

No Hard Feelings
H & K :)
-Chris