Desert Safari: Update

[TDS SD]

We are going to have a "SAFARI" even if we have to move to the North End of the SVRA. We have a meeting with the OHMVD this week to discuss our options. There are pluses and minuses as to keeping it in the usual spot. Mostly on the negative side. They went after CORVA and TDS is next. You will find fresh signs posted around Big Mesa where the Fire Plug is put there by the State Park. I don't know if the Borrego Foundation has deeded over the Property (Section 17 on the Map) so the signs are in question. The other areas that have not been purchased by the OHMVD are managed by the California Lands Commission and they have set up so many requirements for a permit to hold an organized event on their sections that it makes it almost impossible to set up a trail without their permission and that is another part of the equation that has to be worked out. I will post here and on the TDS website on the Safari info page as I find out more information. I am going out to the North End of the SVRA this Friday to scout out a route for our trail. I know there are a few good canyons with challenges out there but nothing like what there is on the north side of S22. Stay tuned/
PS As far as I know Truckhaven is still open to motorized vehicle activity just not for an Organized event with a marked trail.
George.

[NAILER341]

thank you, George for keeping us updated on the issues over there.
i sure hope you are successful on this.is the BRC fighting for you?

[Russ Chung]

George,

I'm confident that you will find an alternative route for the TDS Desert Safari and will be able to obtain a permit from the State. What I am not so sure about is whether the Center for Biological Diversity will now try to get an injunction closing the Truckhaven Hills area to all off-road traffic pending an environmental review.

Russ

[Navy-Jeepster]

I think that CBD was trying to buy the property at the same time that the state was buying it.

All the OHV groups need to band together and fight them. We lost this battle, and they may have tarnished their image a little.

For those that are not a part of a state or national organization, need to join and let your dues in these groups help in this legal battle.

I also heard that the people at Truckhaven this past weekend, donate a lot of money to CORVA for the upcoming legal battle/s.

Todd
Navy-Jeepster

[TDS SD]

We will not be able to hold our Safari at Truckhaven this year. Too many complications. We are going to request a permit to use Ocotillo Wells but even that is now in question. We will know by weeks end one way or another.

[JeepGal]

EEEK! Im soo sorry to hear that George :(

Let us know what (if anything) we can do to help.

Tam

[TDS SD]

As tood said:
"All the OHV groups need to band together and fight them. We lost this battle, and they may have tarnished their image a little.
For those that are not a part of a state or national organization, need to join and let your dues in these groups help in this legal battle"
We sort of knew this was comming but did not expect is this soon.
John Stewart will be going to Sacramento to discuss the situtation with the head of th OHMVD. Help get the word out that the event at Truckhaven
is cancelled and that the area should be avoided the first weekend in March to avoid the impression the event is still going on.
Hopefully the OHMVD will aprove our permit for Ocotillo Wells.

[igofshn]

I thought the purchase of truckhaven land was to avoid things like this happening??

[RAT]

With activist groups like those opposed to the use of open land by off road enthusiasts, you can only count on one thing; never count on anything going the way you think it's going to go. I can't donate too much time to the fight, but my dues are paid and I'll gladly donate some more. We need to put as much effort into this as "they" do.
Rat

[TDS SD]

The problem is the management plan is not finished and the injunction was issued based on that premise and the Big Horn Sheep Habitat. I'm sure there is a bug out there that they will find if all else fails. Try to stay positive. Ocotillo Wells is looking up as a possibility.

[RAT]

The problem is the management plan is not finished and the injunction was issued based on that premise and the Big Horn Sheep Habitat. I'm sure there is a bug out there that they will find if all else fails. Try to stay positive. Ocotillo Wells is looking up as a possibility.

I don't know you, but from reading your posts about this, you sound as if you've been at this along time. It's good to see that there people like you out there working for folks like us that love to wheel. My hats off to you and all of those that you work with, and I wish you the best in getting this resolved. As I said, I don't have a lot of free time to devote to this, but if there is something I can do to help, please let me know.

Kurt

[Mtbikbob]

I don't know you, but from reading your posts about this, you sound as if you've been at this along time. It's good to see that there people like you out there working for folks like us that love to wheel. My hats off to you and all of those that you work with, and I wish you the best in getting this resolved. As I said, I don't have a lot of free time to devote to this, but if there is something I can do to help, please let me know.

Kurt

Yes, I second that!!

Thanks George.


Bob

[Danabee]

What about our rights, what about all the taxes we pay. What can we do to stand up for our rights.

[Jeri Lyn]

Let me play the Devil's advocate here: from the posts I have seen here and elsewhere, the appearance is that TDS had a tendency to be a bit wild and the law enforcement tended to be stretched then. Maybe it's image has been tarnished by the bad actions of those who don't play by the rules.

Also, everyone pays taxes, not just off roaders. So how do we balance all our rights? I am an off roader and an environmentalist, and I don't consider that an oxymoron. In fact, I think all off roaders should consider themselves the same; isn't off roading about enjoying the outdoors as they are and not littered, torn up, destroyed, etc? Granted, it's hard to understand why trails are being closed, and easy to rant and rail against THEM. But if we can't figure out a way to preserve what we have now for ALL, there will be less for the next generations. Think about tomorrow, just not our wants today. Let the invectives begin. :D

[RAT]

Let me play the Devil's advocate here: from the posts I have seen here and elsewhere, the appearance is that TDS had a tendency to be a bit wild and the law enforcement tended to be stretched then. Maybe it's image has been tarnished by the bad actions of those who don't play by the rules.

Also, everyone pays taxes, not just off roaders. So how do we balance all our rights? I am an off roader and an environmentalist, and I don't consider that an oxymoron. In fact, I think all off roaders should consider themselves the same; isn't off roading about enjoying the outdoors as they are and not littered, torn up, destroyed, etc? Granted, it's hard to understand why trails are being closed, and easy to rant and rail against THEM. But if we can't figure out a way to preserve what we have now for ALL, there will be less for the next generations. Think about tomorrow, just not our wants today. Let the invectives begin. :D


I'm standing right next to you Jeri Lyn. :thumbs_up

Rat

[JpPassenger]

I am grateful to all who give their time to preserve off-highway access.

Off-highway recreation on public land is not a right, it is a privilege. Your off-highway recreation privilages are protected by the (too) few who participate in the process.

Public land does not belong to YOU, nor does it belong to ME. It belongs to US, which means we have to share.

The important things most of us already do include volunteering to maintain trails, being a good steward of the lands we play on, cleaning up after ourselves and others, and respecting closed areas regardless of how wrong we feel it is.

We all can and need to do more. We need to write our government representatives at all levels and tell them our concerns. We need to show up at the many hearings regarding land use and deliver our comments.

Land managers tend to manage by closure if they don't have resources to patrol and enforce. Consider giving up a weekend a month to your local forest or BLM area's volunteer patrols.

Managing by lawsuit is a wasteful method which works well for the very organized anti-access groups. Consider giving to pro-access groups which fight for your access, such as Blue Ribbon Coalition, CORVA, CA4WDC. Lawsuits are expensive. Give generously.

Don't be a jerk. Try to understand the concerns of the anti-access folks, instead of just demonizing them. As soon as the mudslinging starts, our credibility sinks. By understanding their concerns, you can explain how we are taking steps to address them at hearings and in letters to your congress person.

If your club is hosting an off-road event, invite the media, and take pains to show them how we are using the land responsibly. Our story should be that we are environmentalists as well.

Be a role model, not a whiner. Whining is like rocking in a chair -- it's something to do, but it gets you nowhere.

[FishPOET]

Permanent closures are not a management tool. PERIOD.

Endangered Species have more rights than you and I.
The Endangered Species Act now encompasses animals, plants and insects.
It is way past time to revamp the Endangered Species Act.

Enviro-nazi's use frivolous lawsuits to scare politicians and government employees into closing motorized recreation areas and enlarging wilderness areas.

Off roaders have to date NEVER used a lawsuit to re-open a closed motorized recreation area.

There is no working with the Sierra Club or the Center for Biological Diversity. They want all motorized recreation abolished. PERIOD. There is no middle ground with these organizations. Do not be fooled.

I have volunteered over 3500 hours in my life to trail maintenance and to organizations involved with maintaining motorized recreation. I have earned the right to speak my mind about eco-terrorists spouting false propaganda and closing motorized recreation areas at an alarming rate.

Learn more about our failed OHVMR Commission.

http://www.corva.org/Latest_Issues/2006/Dysfunctional%20OHVMR.html

http://www.corva.org/Latest_Issues/OHV%20Audit.html

http://www.sharetrails.org/uploads/PL/OHVMR121505/formal_request_12-14-05.pdf

http://www.orba.biz/Dart%20letter%20to%20Little%20Hoover%20Commission. pdf

http://www.cal4wheel.com/nrc/south2-06.htm

http://www.swvoice.com/home/ViewPost/8177

[JpPassenger]

Permanent closures are not a management tool. PERIOD.


Unfortunately, land managers frequently disagree.


Endangered Species have more rights than you and I.
The Endangered Species Act now encompasses animals, plants and insects.
It is way past time to revamp the Endangered Species Act.


I agree. Lets get our printers going with letters to the editor, our representatives, candiates for public office, district supervisors...



Enviro-nazi's use frivolous lawsuits to scare politicians and government employees into closing motorized recreation areas and enlarging wilderness areas.


Marginalizing language like that brings to mind -- oh never mind... Lets just agree that it leaves a less than favorable impression when used in a persuasive arguement.



Off roaders have to date NEVER used a lawsuit to re-open a closed motorized recreation area.


Sounds like we keep showing up to the gunfight armed with only a knife, ya think?

However, groups like BRC and CORVA do lobby, file motions, bring experts to testify. The money we donate funds their work.

This is a battle which will be won by lawyers in courtrooms and in public office. Lawyers are more expensive than Jeep parts. The anti-access groups outspend us hugely.



There is no working with the Sierra Club or the Center for Biological Diversity. They want all motorized recreation abolished. PERIOD. There is no middle ground with these organizations. Do not be fooled.


We don't need to work with them. We need to impress upon the policy makers -- with numbers which represent our expanding group -- that we are aware of what they feel are problems, and explain how we deal with it to minimize the problem.

Anti-access attendees outnumber access attendees more than 10:1 at hearings and open houses. In the eyes of the policy makers, we exist in such a small, apathetic number that the easy decision is closure.



I have volunteered over 3500 hours in my life to trail maintenance and to organizations involved with maintaining motorized recreation. I have earned the right to speak my mind about eco-terrorists spouting false propaganda and closing motorized recreation areas at an alarming rate.


I salute you. And always will, at least until you give up.

[Jeri Lyn]

Again, as Devil's advocate:

We are all part of a giant ecosystem called Earth. Every creature, plant, mineral, etc in some way is linked together. People have managed so far to kill off thousands of species of animals and plants. At what point do we finally kill the last one that makes this planet sustainable? Who gets to decide what is worth saving and what is not? Isn't the key figuring out a way to manage things so we all have a piece? Extreme langauge and name calling lends itself to the attitude of "they're stupid, my side's right, they're after us" etc and creates an atmosphere of rigity, where no one looks for compromise.
:D

[RAT]

I don't have much $$$ but whatever group looks like the strongest and has the best chance of putting my hard earned $$ to work on this will get it. I'll attend as many meetings as I can, and continue to due my volunteer work on the trails. Tell me what else I can do to help and I will bust butt to get it done.

Rat

[TDS SD]

This thread is all over the place. I started it to let everyone know that the Event was in jepordy. We are working within the rules. The majority of the hell raisers are not part of the event. It is part of public land and we can't prevent them from being there. One could reason that our event has attracted that type of crowd. Truckhaven was purchased to expand the current SVRA Area as attendance has increased and more space was needed. The CDB have their reason for doing what they do and it does not agree with what we do. Support those who are working to keep access to Public Land open be it Tierra Del Sol, Corva, American Sand Assoc., BRC etc.
George

[Britain]

This thread is all over the place. I started it to let everyone know that the Event was in jepordy. We are working within the rules. The majority of the hell raisers are not part of the event. It is part of public land and we can't prevent them from being there. One could reason that our event has attracted that type of crowd. Truckhaven was purchased to expand the current SVRA Area as attendance has increased and more space was needed. The CDB have their reason for doing what they do and it does not agree with what we do. Support those who are working to keep access to Public Land open be it Tierra Del Sol, Corva, American Sand Assoc., BRC etc.
George

Well said G!

[FishPOET]

I am an off roader and an environmentalist, and I don't consider that an oxymoron.

I am an off roader and I am not an environmentalist.

I tread lightly and stay on trails unless it is open area and I respect official closures. I always take out more trash than I bring in. I help maintain trails and I am a life member of CA4WD and CORVA and a member of the Blue Ribbon Coalition, but I am not an environmentalist.

I am more important than any plant, animal, rodent or insect that may perish as a result of my home. I choose to use pesticides to keep insects and rodents out of my home and weeds off my property. An environmentalist would live in harmony with nature and welcome plants, weeds, animals, rodents and insects to share their home.

An environmentalist would never send any trash to the local landfill. An environmentalist would recycle 100% of all paper, plastic, metal, cloth and wood products. An environmentalist would bury whatever trash they create on their own property. I recycle what I can, but I am not concerned with what happens to my trash after I send to the local landfill or what plants, animals or insects die at the landfill as a result of my trash or how much pollution the trash truck or landfill dozers produce. I enjoy the cleanliness, safety and ease of our landfill system of waste management.

I am not concerned what happens after I flush. I know that treatment plants use chemicals and my waste ends up in our oceans. I enjoy the cleanliness, safety and ease of our modern sewer system. An environmentalist would only use a septic/leech system (that never gets pumped) and would only use biodegradable detergents.

I am not concerned with the living conditions of my food before it reaches my table. I enjoy the cleanliness, safety and ease of buying fresh food at the local market. An environmentalist would only eat what they grew or raised on their own property. An environmentalist would never advocate the use of greenhouse gas spewing fossil fuel vehicles to deliver food from the growers to the local markets. An environmentalist would never use pesticides on their home grown vegetables.

I enjoy having electricity pumped into my house. I am not concerned with how much pollution our electricity generating plants produce. An environmentalist would only use renewable energy sources (solar and wind) on their own property.

I enjoy automobiles and driving. I enjoy all the exploring that my Jeep has allowed me to accomplish. An environmentalist would never drive a fossil fuel vehicle. An environmentalist would only drive a renewable energy source vehicle powered by energy that they made themselves.

[TDS SD]

If you haven't read the article in the SD Union you must do so. Finally a bright light at the end of the tunnel;
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20070127/news_7m27offroad.html
George

[NAILER341]

If you haven't read the article in the SD Union you must do so. Finally a bright light at the end of the tunnel;
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20070127/news_7m27offroad.html
George

that is a step in the right direction.:wave:

[JpPassenger]

If you haven't read the article in the SD Union you must do so. Finally a bright light at the end of the tunnel;
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20070127/news_7m27offroad.html
George

Great news!

And I apologize for contributing to the veering nature of this topic. I saw it as a teachable moment.

I'll move the preaching to a new topic.
Greg

[Navy-Jeepster]

I would agree with Jeri Lyn, in that we all are Environmentalist.
From the dictionary: "One concerned about environmental quality esp. of the human environment with respect to the control of pollution".

As an active wheeler, if someone breaks something, and is leaking fluids all over the ground, I help them clean it up. We have to out on the trails, to keep our image up that we care about the environment.

TDS and Truckhaven is just the start of the battles. There are also others that are presently ongoing! Mojave and the Desert Tortoise. A couple of groups have filed suit to close all of the Mojave to OHV use to protect the Desert Tortoise. They say the plan to manage the Mojave and the associated area's are flawed, and they just want to close the whole area.

Some of this area also contains trails in the Barstow, Calico area, Johnson Valley. The range of the Desert Toroise is huge.

So, it has been mentioned in here to get involved. It is cheap to write a letter. I encourage you to hand write it. They carry more weight with our congressional delegates then the computer generate ones, and the email ones. The emailed ones very seldom get looked at by our representatives. A hand written letter has a high probablity of making it to his/her desk for them to read.

Join all you can afford to join. Me, I am part of Cal4Wheel, Blue Ribbon, and United. I also give money each month to Blue Ribbon. It is not much, but if we all do it, it will all add up, and help in the fight.

We also need to get our friends to join if they are not members of any of these groups. At least join their local state organization. Then join at least one national organization.

We have a huge fight in front of us, and it is going to take a lot of money. The groups that want to keep us out of places like Truckhaven, have lots of money.

I am sure that some of the Anti-Access folks monitor our forums to see what we are doing, and planning. We for the most part are pretty open about all we are doing. We need to shut those doors somewhat.

Also, like was all ready mentioned, name calling does nothing, other than making you maybe feel better, but it makes you look stupid in the eyes of the newsmedia if they get ahold of your statement. And if they read that in here, they may take it to print as gospel!

Lets circle the wagons, and get ready for a fight, and come out with everything we have. I am sure we have some lawyers in our midsts, and they need to step up and donate some time to our cause!

Off my soap box for this hour.

Todd
Navy-Jeepster

[TDS SD]

If you wish to support our efforts to help keep public lands open to Motorized Recreation Join us by Registering for our relocated Safari.
The forms can be found at:
http://tds4x4.com/iframes/safaripacket.htm
George

[RAT]

If you wish to support our efforts to help keep public lands open to Motorized Recreation Join us by Registering for our relocated Safari.
The forms can be found at:
http://tds4x4.com/iframes/safaripacket.htm
George

I doesn't look like I'll be able to make the event but my application fee is on it's way. I wish I could do more.

Rat